[soulcyon]

gibbonweb, on 29 May 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Generalizations never work.

OO are we playing paradox game?

My turn: There are absolutely no absolute certainties.

[SapporoGuy]

Hmm, so Jesus took a "bullet" for me and gets painted as our savior others get painted as "fanatics".

Ok, do we just throw away the original premises or should we modify them into a if - elseif - else structure?

[ianonavy]

soulcyon, on 30 May 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

OO are we playing paradox game?

My turn: There are absolutely no absolute certainties.

This statement is false.

[TheMaster]

If I complain that this thread is making me uncomfortable, would it get locked too?

[gushort]

TheMaster, on 05 June 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

If I complain that this thread is making me uncomfortable, would it get locked too?

You are making me uncomfortable, can we lock you up?

j/k

[SapporoGuy]

The mods/admins have a right to monitor, censor what they feel is appropriate here. I have no issues with that.

But to enjoy a fun topic

This "uncomfortable" phrase did make me think a bit ... Maybe good to do that once in a while

I started to wonder ... If something makes some feel "uncomfortable" does that mean censorship is a valid excuse?

Put more simply, Americans readily trade freedom for security. Air travel
Yet, they also want free trade and capitalism. This doesn't work, if you want medi-care somebody has to pay for it. If you want security, you have to give up freedom.

Freedom is not free, nor is security!
Censorship in the name of freedom and rights of individuals?

Something to consider ...

[gushort]

Speaking of censorship, I always thought it funny how the American "evangelist types" always push their government representatives to censor television, radio, and film when it comes to sex, but give violence a pass. Crazy how it is more offensive to them to see two men kissing, or see an exposed woman's nipple for a few seconds, than it is to see someone fire a gun at another person or punch them.

[TheMaster]

@SaapporoGuy

I know, I know. Mods/Admins have that right. However, I just wanted to comment that it is no surprise to me, that even THINKING about the holocaust with a slightly different mindset, gets locked. I just think that is typical of the 21st "heading to be orwellian" era. Anything that goes even the slightest bit against the norm or what is taught, gets silenced.

@gushort

Yes, quite sad. I'm a Christian, and for me personally, I believe in people's freedom. After all, if we didn't have a free wil, we would just be robots. If people wanna put sex and violence and all that on TV, fine!, that doesn't mean you are forced to watch it.

I think rather then stopping these things altogether, channels should think more carefully about the TIMES they air them. For instance, having explicit or extremely violent content on, during prime time or after school, when kids are watching TV, isnt right. Perhaps separate channels for that sort of stuff?

[Hyde]

TheMaster, on 05 June 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

I just think that is typical of the 21st "heading to be orwellian" era. Anything that goes even the slightest bit against the norm or what is taught, gets silenced.[/b]

+19234 on that. I just can't imagine how crazy humankind is going to be by the end of the 21st century. Orwell ftw.. He saw it coming.

[Mack]

TheMaster, on 05 June 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

I know, I know. Mods/Admins have that right. However, I just wanted to comment that it is no surprise to me, that even THINKING about the holocaust with a slightly different mindset, gets locked. I just think that is typical of the 21st "heading to be orwellian" era. Anything that goes even the slightest bit against the norm or what is taught, gets silenced.

The thing is, it wasn't just thinking about the Holocaust. Although the topic started out a decent discussion with valid points, it quickly regressed into people blindly throwing around arguments without listening to others. At that point, it wasn't taken down so nobody can think about the Holocaust differently, but rather locked to end the pointless spewing. I'm sure people were to have a civilized discussion the mods would leave that up.

[gibbonweb]

Hyde, on 05 June 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

+1984 on that.

FTFY

[TheMaster]

Mack, on 05 June 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

The thing is, it wasn't just thinking about the Holocaust. Although the topic started out a decent discussion with valid points, it quickly regressed into people blindly throwing around arguments without listening to others. At that point, it wasn't taken down so nobody can think about the Holocaust differently, but rather locked to end the pointless spewing. I'm sure people were to have a civilized discussion the mods would leave that up.

Its quite hard to "listen" on forums. Forums are not a "civilized debate". At my school, we regulary have debates (we had one today on gun rights actually!).

There, it is expected that we remain civil, wait our turn, and do not talk over other people. What is NOT expect, is that we listen to other people. If its my turn to speak, I can say what I want! If it completely disregards the opposing side, then I can still say it!

Even if what I say makes our team lose, then too bad, but I didn't break the rules of debating in any way.

Now - I never do this: firstly because I'd never get on a debating team again, and secondly because it get you nowhere.

The internet is different. If I want to voice my opinion regardless of what others have said, then that is my freedom.

I didn't see alot of useless spewing. There may have been a post or two (perhaps even one of my own), however if people are going to silence discussion because "it doesn't look pretty", or because "it makes people feel uncomfortable" or the debate is full of "spewing", then that is just plain stupid.

In the words of Hyde: "Orwell FTW!".

[gibbonweb]

Wtf? How does that recent thread which got locked have anything to do with unjustified, "Orwellian" censorship?
If I recall correctly, wdR is a webdev forum, personally I wouldn't even think of posting a thread like this one or the locked one over here...
For someone like me, certain topics ARE offensive (I didn't report any of the ones we're talking about, just to make that clear) simply because I don't come on wdr to discuss questionable political views or ethics, I come on wdr to learn webdev related stuff, help others out if I can and have a little fun on the side.
Just my 2 cents.

[TheMaster]

gibbonweb, on 06 June 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

Wtf? How does that recent thread which got locked have anything to do with unjustified, "Orwellian" censorship?
If I recall correctly, wdR is a webdev forum, personally I wouldn't even think of posting a thread like this one or the locked one over here...
For someone like me, certain topics ARE offensive (I didn't report any of the ones we're talking about, just to make that clear) simply because I don't come on wdr to discuss questionable political views or ethics, I come on wdr to learn webdev related stuff, help others out if I can and have a little fun on the side.
Just my 2 cents.

Yes, that's what I'm here for too.

However, the threads were in fact posted in "General Discussion", that has a description of "Talk about anything, web-related or not." So it shouldn't have been locked on "off-topic" grounds (which I know it was not).

"For someone like me, certain topics ARE offensive".

EXACTLY! People in this Orwellian Era thinks that question the taught, and going against what people have blindly accepted is OFFENSIVE. I say that it should NOT be offensive. What is so offensive about discussing history? Really?

"Wtf? How does that recent thread which got locked have anything to do with unjustified, "Orwellian" censorship?"

I hope you were joking. It has alot to do with it. I simply used "orwellian" as a somewhat exagerated metaphore, however I think it still rings true in some ways. Locking/silencing/deleting/banning/censoring/dowatthefukyouwantwithit a thread that questions history, and does so WITHOUT be racist, or pointing fingers, is Owellian. 'Nuf said.

[gibbonweb]

TheMaster, on 06 June 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

What is so offensive about discussing history? Really?
[...] Locking/silencing/deleting/banning/censoring/dowatthefukyouwantwithit a thread that questions history, and does so WITHOUT be racist, or pointing fingers, is Owellian. 'Nuf said.

The thread was locked, but it's still there. If you read it carefully, it starts with someone questioning the Holocaust, followed by a huge torrent of shitstorm, followed by a few facts in the sense of "hitler, stalin, mao, they are all the same", followed by me just quoting fuckin Wikipedia to inform the OP about concentration camp classifications => everything "questionable" about the topic is in fact completely cleared up and logical and questioning the Holocaust is either ignorant or racist => the OP finds out that the source he quoted is actually some racist anti-semitic nutcase, case closed => Mo3 closes the thread, because what else could have been said on this topic?

Don't get me wrong, I was VERY offended by the subject, but I didn't request it to be locked or whatever. I like clearing things like this up instead of having the discussion shut down even though I was extremely mad.

wdR is not a democracy and we trust our mods to make wise decisions regarding the forum organization. If you don't like how forums are generally handled this way, you can always go on reddit (or similar platforms with a simple "voting" mechanism), but I'm sure that the above-mentioned threads would have been downvoted to hell way before a mod would have touched it.

[callumacrae]

Re offensive topics being locked: Wtf? If I started a topic about how I think black people should be locked up, it would be locked. That isn't "Orwellian" at all, that's just locking an offensive thread…

This topic is going to be locked if you don't get back on topic soonish.

[gibbonweb]

callumacrae, on 06 June 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

This topic is going to be locked if you don't get back on topic soonish.

I agree that it would be a good idea to maybe separate the censorship meta discussion into a different thread...

[TheMaster]

gibbonweb, on 06 June 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

The thread was locked, but it's still there. If you read it carefully, it starts with someone questioning the Holocaust, followed by a huge torrent of shitstorm, followed by a few facts in the sense of "hitler, stalin, mao, they are all the same", followed by me just quoting fuckin Wikipedia to inform the OP about concentration camp classifications => everything "questionable" about the topic is in fact completely cleared up and logical and questioning the Holocaust is either ignorant or racist => the OP finds out that the source he quoted is actually some racist anti-semitic nutcase, case closed => Mo3 closes the thread, because what else could have been said on this topic?

Don't get me wrong, I was VERY offended by the subject, but I didn't request it to be locked or whatever. I like clearing things like this up instead of having the discussion shut down even though I was extremely mad.

wdR is not a democracy and we trust our mods to make wise decisions regarding the forum organization. If you don't like how forums are generally handled this way, you can always go on reddit (or similar platforms with a simple "voting" mechanism), but I'm sure that the above-mentioned threads would have been downvoted to hell way before a mod would have touched it.

You seem to think that question something is offensive. WTF!? I personally think that is extremely narrow minded of you. THere was nothing offesnive in the topic, and those who were offended by it should either get used to the fact that not everything they believe it true/believed by everybody else, and need to cope with the fact that in life, other people can and will question their thoughts and views.

Whether or not the holocaust happened is irrelavent. That is not the point I am trying to make. The point I am making is that locking a topic due to it questioning history is stupid, and petty.

callumacrae, on 06 June 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

Re offensive topics being locked: Wtf? If I started a topic about how I think black people should be locked up, it would be locked. That isn't "Orwellian" at all, that's just locking an offensive thread…

This topic is going to be locked if you don't get back on topic soonish.

No shit. You have just shown me how little you understood about my above posts.

Questioning history, and making stupid racist threads like that, is very VERY different. I'm sure you know that. I HOPE you know that.

It never fails to amaze me that people think question something is suddenly "racist", or "anarchist".

[gibbonweb]

TheMaster, on 06 June 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

You seem to think that question something is offensive. WTF!? I personally think that is extremely narrow minded of you. THere was nothing offesnive in the topic, and those who were offended by it should either get used to the fact that not everything they believe it true/believed by everybody else, and need to cope with the fact that in life, other people can and will question their thoughts and views.

I am German. I know my history. I live 10km away from the next concentration camp. I have visited it. Someone questions the holocaust, I am like WTF. How could I not be offended? I look the questioned points up on wikipedia and find everything he questioned explained, evidenced with credible sources, I cite it. Can't see where this is "narrow minded of me". Thinking a topic can not be offensive to someone just because it is not offensive to *you* is "extremely narrow minded of you".

[soulcyon]

+1 SapporoGuy, I wonder when somebody will get half-a-brain and repeal Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security.